How can you tell you might be going to a personal growth program?
It’s easy. In the marketing materials you will find words like transformation, breakthrough, shadow, initiation, healing, a big price tag (usually over $600), and so forth.
One of your friends, family, or in some cases, therapist or coach will also be the one to “invite” you to “a weekend.”
There are many psychotherapists in the Chicago area who are familiar with personal growth workshops and may have referred many of their clients.
I think it can be assumed the vast majority of people who attend these programs benefit, some tremendously.
It’s probably safe to say there are 3 camps when it comes to these programs:
- · Often the most enthusiastic are the ones who love the experience and claim it has changed their lives for the better.
- · The ones who give it some credit, but are not likely to repeat their experience.
- · This is the usually very quiet group, but when asked “trash” the experience. A few of this third group file complaints and lawsuits.
However, when people feel harmed or are injured or killed, it’s a very different story. While it may seem negative to raise these issues the facts remain individuals with pre-existing medical and mental health issues may be ill-advised to participate in these programs.
A quick view of the research offers multiple examples of serious negative outcomes for participants of these experiences. These include:
- · The 3 deaths and injuries of participants of a James Arthur Ray program (Stroud, 2015)
- · Reports of psychotic episodes after the Landmark Forum (Glass LL, 1977)
- · Report of a suicide after a Mankind Program weekend (Wikipedia, Mankind Project, 2016)
Obviously, these are very serious problems, and any family member or friend would be concerned and upset by these occurrences.
Some programs I have experience with are the Mankind Project’s New Warrior Training Adventure and the Victories of the Heart. I have staffed both weekends and became a leader of the Victories of the Heart Breakthrough weekend and helped to create the Victories psychodrama training program.
Our leader team instituted an evaluation process and always scored about 4.7 on a 5 point scale. The comments of the participants were enthusiastic and inspiring. Life-changing was the common theme. Aside from the huge burden of responsibility, it was an incredible experience to share in such momentous work with these men.
The Breakthrough weekend was the brainchild of Bob Mark, PhD and the late Buddy Portugal, LCSW. It’s brilliantly conceived with a wonderful balance of engaging men in a process of deep personal exploration. Science helps us understand now that because of the unique way trauma memory is stored, humans need to feel safe in order for that memory to be accessed. (Van der Kolk B. , 2014)
I had some truly wonderful experiences working in the leader team we created. Many of those guys are now in leadership positions in Victories and have made many, many positive changes. I also like many of the workshops offered via the MKP men’s centers all over the globe.
Not everything about these two local programs (MKP has a center in Chicago but is an international program) is perfect and MKP has had its share of controversial moments, complaints, deaths, and a few lawsuits.
What were the influences of Victorie, MKP and other similar programs evolve?
It’s surprising in a way that more leaders and stakeholders of these organizations have not studied the historical connections to other similar programs.
In the social science literature, these programs are referred to as large group awareness trainings (LGATs). (Wikipedia, LGATs, 2016)
LGATs evolved out of the Human Potential Movement (HPM) and the New Age Movement (NAM) in the 1960’s and 1970’s. They shared similar goals in helping people increase self-awareness and become more empowered in the world, but had significant differences.
Suzanne Snider in her excellent article, est, Wernard Erhardt and the Corporitization of Self-Awareness, states:
“the HPM and NAM movements diverged philosophically when it came to attributing the source of human experience. The HPM (think Werner Erhard or L. Ron Hubbard) credited/blamed each individual as the sole determiner of his or her own experiences, whereas NAM (think Shirley MacLaine, but please think well of her) explored spiritual, metaphysical, and extraterrestrial realms as forces guiding and even determining a person’s life.” (Snider, 2003)
Suzanne’s article is a fascinating review of this history and anyone interested in these issues will benefit from starting with this article.
So, LGATs started with lofty goals of increasing self-awareness and personal success and the methods were a mixture of many common psychological techniques, like guided imagery, self-hypnosis, meditation, group process, and more unorthodox methods, like enforced no-bathroom use for long periods of time (people apparently wet their pants) and verbal abuse.
Suzanne goes on to say:
“the Human Potential Movement (programs) engaged in far less soothing awareness-training sessions, filled with screaming and crying and verbal abuse. HPM groups such as Lifespring, Mind Dynamics, and est aimed (often in competition with one another) to goad us into more fully realized versions of ourselves…”
I never experienced any of these LGATs, though my wife attended the Landmark Forum here in Chicago and encouraged me to attend a orientation session. It was a fail, as the young woman leading the event seemed barely out of college and her diagrams on the blackboard left me pretty confused.
But those early LGAT sessions had to be pretty memorable. For me and any of my Catholic school friends, the idea of someone standing in the front of the room verbally abusing us is pretty easy to imagine. We experienced that all the time.
Most of these early HPM programs were motivated by profits and there was a lot to be made. Over time, modifications were made, like est became Landmark Forum and continues to this day to offer programs which many find very helpful. Wikipedia reports there may be as many as 2.4 million graduates of Landmark Forum programs. (Wikipedia, Landmark Worldwide, 2016)
One has to admit there is something happening in Landmark which people find meaningful. In fact, the Landmark website features an endorsement from Alan Menken, 8-time Academy Award Winning Composer who says:
“This is basic training for the mind, the heart and the soul. It is the most positive transforming experience I’ve ever been a part of.”
There are other celebrity graduates of Landmark who offer a boost in testimonial value to the organization. No doubt, Landmark Forum, the direct descendent of est is mainstream now and boasts millions in revenue yearly.
Landmark is only one of the LGATs reviewed in the literature both from the point of view of success and failure. A law firm defending Rick Ross of the Cult Awareness Network wrote a an excellent review of the litigation involving Landmark’s attempts to quiet it’s critics. (Skolnik, 2006)
It’s quite a read and shows clearly an organization with a lot of money and attorneys can make people’s lives miserable they deem harmful to their image/brand.
When you consider the effort to silence critics of LGATs, you begin to question Suzanne Snider’s definition of the HMP movement as:
“well-meaning… a movement which put a premium on human possibility, with an emphasis on the spiritual side of humanity.” (Snider, 2003)
One wonders why programs which claim to do such good in the world would need to be so harsh in their effort to squash people’s First Amendment rights. I guess one reason is because they can.
What are the characteristics of LGATs?
The four main characteristics include the following:
- creation of an altered state of awarenes
- catharsis or the intense expression of emotions
- rebirthing or some exercise leading to a sense of new beginnings
It’s been fascinating to me that many people involved in leadership of these programs have not understood the historical influences of other LGATs or even the underlying structure and processes of these programs. Social scientists have been studying LGATs for decades and there is a lot of interesting literature out there.
Mind Dynamics started in 1968 and is widely understood to be one of the first, and perhaps, most influential LGAT, leading directly to the creation of EST or Erhard Seminar Trainings, which then led to the Landmark Forum operated by Landmark Education. A second LGAT evolving from Mind dynamics was Lifesprings Seminars.
Writers suggest Mind Dynamics and it’s owner were influenced by Edgar Cayce, Theosophy, Silva Mind Control and Curtiss’ Depression is a Choice. (Edgar Cayce, 2016) (Theosophy, 2016) (Curtiss, 2016). I’m providing links here for anyone to read more about these early influences on LGATs. It wasn’t all pretty and Mind Dynamics was sued for false advertising and forced to cease operations in the early 1970’s.
Most of the smaller Chicago based programs have been influenced greatly by the Mankind Project’s success. Imitation is flattery and I know the MKP guys welcome other programs learning from them and moving on to create other programs. MKP has been an incubator for leadership, healing & recovery, and global change. With men’s centers in many parts of the world, they bring the opportunity for health and well-being to tens of thousands of men and their families, especially through their skillful use of psychodrama.
One example of this influence is my own participation at psychodrama training workshops sponsored by MKP or men associate with MKP, like David Karr. I thought it was a great learning experience for me. When I began to work with my leader partner, Kurt Schultz, in the Victories Breakthrough weekend, it was apparent we had to develop a conceptual map about leading psychodrama. Kurt was very good at it, but I was not and needed to do catch-up. I had been trying to study psychodrama and MKP offered the only way to do so at the time.
Our work there with the other participants was very helpful and enabled us to continue to work with the informal team of guys at Victories to develop a cohesive way of teaching and facilitating psychodrama. I credit my relationship with Kurt Schultz and the other guys for their ability to collaborate in what was a transformative step in the history of volunteer training in Victories. Many of those men are now leaders and Board members/stakeholders in the organization. I am very proud of this accomplishment.
For some reason, keeping processes secret has been important to LGATs. A lawsuit against MKP several years ago led to more transparency on the website where prospective participants can learn more about what actually happens. Victories has also increased their transparency with their Breakthrough and Wisdom years weekend website descriptions, yet keeps their shadow weekend processes more secretive. This secretive process is one reason I have been so critical of the Victories Shadow weekend over the years.
Victories seems to be increasing the transparency of the Shadow weekend, as their website now offers more detailed testimonials from participants which really offers insights into the experience. I was very impressed by what I read and could tell these men had a meaningful experience which might even be called life-changing. I helped staff one of the first Shadow weekends and did not have a good experience. Like all bad experiences, this was imprinted more powerfully in my memory system, so it’s been difficult for me to change my opinions.
Victories also had an open, free meeting to learn more about the Shadow weekend, probably an experiential program just a few weeks ago. I would have actually gone to this and will watch for another opportunity. I am fascinated by the impact of personal growth weekends and can only discuss what I know or can learn from reading or experiencing.
I swore I would never go to another Shadow weekend, but I would really love to know the ways in which it’s been improved. I’ve been assured it’s been redesigned and believe the people who have told me this. I have always been against the keeping stuff secret, but in this case, I really believe the Shadow weekend’s viability as a program has been damaged. I have been privately and publically critical, but several problems existed which made it difficult, and for me, impossible to refer men.
Although the leaders of this program had decades to create enthusiasm, the program is offered, at best, once a year. By any marketing standards, it has not been successful and it really could have been. The conceptual material is there and the leaders have been some of the most popular, intelligent and charismatic leaders in the organization.
Ironically, I think the growth of non-therapists as Board members, stakeholders, and program leaders has been helpful to Victories. These non-therapists guys I know are really bright and successful men in their own professions. The most brilliant example of this is Kurt Schultz who I was lucky to have mentor me and enable me to stretch into a leadership role in the Breakthrough weekend.
Kurt was one of the most powerful lawyers in the country, placed in the top 5 of his graduating law school class, was a veteran (when other men were seeking deferments), and dedicated himself to public service as a Board member at various Chicago social service agencies. Kurt was a successful, wealthy man who I knew helped others financially almost whenever he was asked. He was certainly generous in his contributions to needy causes.
To absolutely anyone who has been involved with Victories, Kurt is well-known as a great program leader and the President of the Board who guided Victories through its tumultuous post-2004 Strategic plan period. This was a very difficult period, as new policies were created which led to leaders earning a fixed stipend and eliminated leaders sharing profits from weekends.
You can do the math. With 20 participants paying $600 and the average costs for each man being about $200, the leaders shared in these profits. So, the stipend was a big step down. I know. In my first weekend as a leader, I shared the profits, while the very next weekend I received the stipend, a 50% reduction in compensation. I admit I felt a little tweaked, but wonder how the other leaders felt who earned substantially more profits.
The other problem Kurt had to deal with was the power dynamic related to program decisions and the allocation of resources. The founders were intent on building a Wisdom years leadership group and expanding this program to other cities. Boston was the first target city. Ironically, I attended the Boston Wisdom years weekend, in part to support the guys and attend a weekend where I would have more anonymity. I later became embroiled in a personally damaging conflict which, like most conflicts, was layered on the surface about content issues (how I thought the program could be improved) and process issues (who really had the power to make decisions now).
Kurt had his hands full trying to appease and satisfy the founders and their interest in expanding the Wisdom years, while still keeping the larger organization stable and in the necessary transition. It was not easy for him. I would hear some of these conversations while we were driving and talk about them with him when we had time. In hindsight, I think we all would have been better off and the organization avoid all the sharp elbows, the damage of conflicts going subterranean, and the understandable, but very petty jealousies about just about everything.
I was the biggest advocate for an expanded leadership team and a move away from what I considered the cumbersome and conflict inducing dyadic leader structure. However, I can see how each leader team developed a cadre of guys which formed a safe and beautiful place for them. An oasis from the seemingly endless demand to smile and say fine, when so much was brewing under the surface.
What married person doesn’t feel better after talking about a problem with their spouse? How brilliant men can languish in the mire of unresolved conflicts for decades is confusing and tragic. I heard “I love you” a lot. I guess it’s partly true that “love means you never have to say you’re sorry.” Secrets always create a wall between people.
The progress in making programs and their processes more transparent is welcome in the world. All medical and mental health care is based on the premise of “do no harm” and informing patients of diagnoses and available treatment options. A personal growth weekend promises change, even transformation, so to keep details secret runs in conflict with the ultimate goal of the program. It’s counterproductive to keep such positive programming secret.
I remember sitting in leadership meetings at Victories and conversations with MKP folks many years ago saying, if we know this program can be very helpful, we should be more transparent. If it’s too secretive, even stakeholders and board members of these organizations may not know what happens.
None of these programs are perfect and one person’s transformative experience is another person’s waste of money. I understand this.
Needless to say, licensed therapists are advised to avoid any leadership role in such weekends. Although the threat of malpractice may be low, they should imagine what might happen if someone is seriously injured or dies during a weekend where they have some official role. There will be an investigation, perhaps criminal charges, and lawsuits.
Notably, there is the James Arthur Ray program which had a national audience, thanks to Oprah Winfrey. Ray’s program exploited vulnerable people for a lot of money and was recently convicted of negligent homicide in the deaths of participants in a sweat lodge.
Another example of a psychotherapy practice evolving into a personal growth program is the Wright Institute, the brainchild of Robert Wright and his wife Judith Wright. Robert (Bob)Wright is a graduate school colleague of mine who now runs his own graduate school or something akin to this. Knowing him from then, I do believe he is doing this now. While there are scores of Wright’s clients whose lives have been transformed, one only use google to learn of many more who have filed complaints.
Generally, these programs have charismatic leaders who put naive people into intense exercises where an emotional release takes place. Often, participants may be the psychotherapy or coaching clients of leaders of these program, increasing the risk of exploitation. How can a psychotherapy client refuse his own therapist or coach?
During these programs participants have what’s called an “abreaction” where emotional memories stored implicitly are released. This may provide an immediate sense of relief, even healing, if the exercise is done well. A successful breakthrough like this creates a profound sense of connection between the participant and the facilitator therapist.
Ethically, this can be argued as a good and bad thing. Good because it can cement the relationship and bad because it can inflate the status of the therapist to unrealistic proportions. One of the arts of therapy is for the therapist to remain connected to the client in ways which equalize the relationship so change is more seamless and not dramatically associated with the magic of the therapist.
In my review of Bob Mark’s book, Clearing the Path: Opening the Spiritual Frontier, I explore Dr. Mark’s centrality to the positive changes in his client’s lives. A constant theme is his encouragement of the reader to reduce their doubt, in a sense become more open to the spirit world. I didn’t really know Dr. Mark very well, but understood his training in family therapy and Gestalt and could see this influence in the creation of the Breakthrough weekend. For you history buffs, this was originally called the Men’s room program.
Without giving away details of the Breakthrough weekend, one can easily recognize the initial phase of connecting, building a safe container for work, helping participants begin to focus internally, then engage them in a deeper process where emotional memories can be accessed, explored and resolved, then the preparation for the return to ordinary life with the opportunity to continue the work in a group with other interested participants from the weekend.
There is no doubt I liked the Breakthrough weekend a lot and had many, many memorable experiences with assorted members of leadership teams. My most gratifying times were with Kurt Schultz who helped me and other guys (many of whom are current leaders and Board members) be leaders.
While I really liked the experience, I had concerns about the structure of the early Victories organization, the Men’s Room. It was essentially an offshoot of the leader’s private practice and leaders shared profits from the weekend. Most often, leaders had many of their own private practice clients participating in their weekends, creating dual and multiple type relationships, a dynamic which risks the exploitation of the client by the therapist.
I was most critical of this aspect of his book, which I otherwise thoroughly enjoyed and highly recommend. ,
Here’s what I said about therapist and magic:
” Therapists do not create magic to change their clients; they experience it right along with their clients. Together, the magic of the therapeutic relationship unfolds, changing both the client and the therapist for the better.”
This was not the view of how change at weekends happened for several leader teams. For them, it was their own unique gift and the love for their partner that flowed into the participant to create change. One can look at this simplistically and say the leaders thought of themselves as mother-mother, father-mother and were providing unconditional love to their hurt and injured child.
This can also be viewed in a more grandiose way in that the leader sees himself and their relationship with their leader partner as some type of “leader as central source of power” where they create miracles out of thin air. I sensed this in Bob Mark’s book on spirituality. It was about him as a conduit of spirit energy, reading palms, throwing stones, etc which created the change.
This type of thinking is flawed and disregards the voluminous research on the attachment and neuroscience. Understanding that research as I did, and trying to integrate it into the Victories programs was welcome and applauded when it came to the psychodrama training, but led me into conflict with the leader teams for the Wisdom years and Shadow weekends.
After a good faith effort, I grew tired of the old systemic problem of leaders swinging sharp elbows, working behind the scenes to get Kurt on their side, then issuing unilateral pronouncements about the way things were going to go. By the way, thank you for wasting hours of your time and showing up for a 90 minute meeting which gives me the chance to let you know how little your opinion is worth to me.
This was part of the older system. I remember spending hours (I was a great acolyte) trying to think up new names for the organization to change it from the “Men’s Room.” The study group unanimously recommended Breakthrough. We all found out the new name would be “Victories of the Heart” which coincidently was the name of the founders’ new book. Ok there!
So, some people may have felt I abandoned them and the organization. I was unable to stay in a situation where I felt so out of alignment with the leadership structures. I’m thinking now of the college fraternity where I lived and how I told the chapter I was not planning to become an active member and was moving into the dorms for sophomore year. I had been disgusted by the rampant alcohol abuse, providing alcohol to high school seniors visiting and what I suspected was the abuse of an intoxicated female student. This was never discussed, but I reported it to the school many years later.
The point here is the majority of the upperclassmen secretly voted to “blackball” me after I told them I was moving out. Classy. It’s widely known a characteristic of narcissism is to react with rage when they feel criticized. In terms of this fraternity, I had to ask what this blackballing meant and although it was the responsibility of the men who blackballed me to speak with me, you can guess none of them did. They were probably drunk when they did it and were afraid to confront me directly. I had been on the freshman football team and had the second highest grade point after the first semester in the freshman class.
Like with Victories, I still liked many of the friends I made from that class, but they were sworn off having any contact with me. I was persona non grata, just as I had become with Victories.
By now in my own personal journey, I was recovering from a deep depression, having begun anti-depressant medication and was beginning to see things more clearly. I could see how being a leader of these weekends was a powerful experience, a rush of amazing proportions. I was hooked by the extreme positives of leadership and also my crusader effort to change some of the ways Victories operated, especially an effort to move it away from the dyadic leader model to leadership teams, leader selection by merit, competent evaluation of programs, and ethics policies and standards.
My efforts, although consistent with the 2004 Strategic Plan, were confronting the principals in ways in which they were not accustomed. It was not pretty and I decided I would not be able to sustain my efforts. I was challenging both their fundamental beliefs about what made the Breakthrough weekend (at least) work. They felt criticized, understandable, and reacted. It was not in my character to ignore such reactions.
To view some of my accomplishments asserting myself on behalf of vulnerable people, view here and here on my website.
I also knew something else was deeply wrong with my judgment and ability to maintain a stable mood that participation in Victories was not helping.
I knew the anti-depressant medication was helpful right away. It was the “vitamin” my body and brain needed. With the correct levels of serotonin, I began to sleep better and think more clearly. I also was diagnosed with hypo-gonadism (low production of testosterone), so adding testosterone to my medication regimen also made a big improvement in my energy levels and improved brain functioning. It was all good.
In my own search accurately diagnosis my vulnerability, I did diagnostic brain scans and neuropsych testing. I learned I had brain damage likely from early childhood trauma which directly caused many of my life’s ups and downs. Serious medical and mental health problems men’s work would never cure. So, it was all a bad idea for me. Some gains and good times, but likely the stress of it all caused more damage.
Devoting myself to Victories, especially when it meant a more uncritical support of the original leaders dreams, was no longer a good idea. I knew the effort to expand the Wisdom years to Boston would fail. I participated in that Wisdom years, experienced the program, and met the possible Boston leaders. I knew it had very little chance to fly.
I was asked to give my evaluation both at the weekend (I signed my name) and afterwards. In sum, I said I had a wonderful experience and really enjoyed being there and helping the Boston program get started. I also offered specific parts of the weekend to change. You can guess how popular this made me. Only in some ideal and unrealistic world would my change efforts at that time have been well-received.
How would you get men to do a Wisdom years in Boston? Only through some recruitment effort by guys who knew very little about the program with virtually no source of referrals locally.
It’s ironic I became embroiled in a conflict about the Wisdom years, as I was determined to stay out of the undercurrent of disagreement. When I returned from the weekend, Kurt nonchalantly asked me how I liked it. I told him it was great and I enjoyed myself, especially the dose of “geritol” they gave me before bedtime!. Kurt laughed with one of his full-throated laughs and we enjoyed our moment of brevity. Then he asked me about a particular practice on the weekend.
I told him I had seen that before and was surprised they did it at the weekend. I won’t say more about Kurt’s view, but at the next Board meeting, he spontaneously raised the issue and appointed another Board member and myself to “study” this practice and make recommendations. The other Board member and I looked at each other as if to ask, “did you know he was going to do this?” We both answered silently, no.
I made a joke to make sure everyone there knew there was no conspiracy against the Wisdom years and I did not know about this appointment. Kurt knew I did not want to get involved, but when Kurt asked, you said yes.
Fortunately, the other Board member called me a few days later and told me the issue was dropped and there was no need to “study” it any longer. We were both relieved to pull ourselves out of the hornet’s nest without being stung.
The 2004-2008 period when I had re-engaged in Victories was a tough period when the original leaders had to yield the total power they had over programs and details and allow the Board to assume authority.
I do not believe this time went well and think it was ultimately harmful for me. There are several neuroscience concepts which help explain some of the unresolved conflicts, but implicit memories are very important. (Zimmerman, 2014)
Memories of hurt and injuries are stored implicitly with no time stamp. This means whenever triggered, the stored feelings can surface as if the hurt and injury had just occurred. Such is my life and the life of other trauma survivors. The brain damage I lived with only made matters worse.
Recruitment is a key characteristic of an LGAT. It becomes problematic when the participants are encouraged (some might say pressured) to become ambassadors for these programs and recruit other family members and friends.
It’s not too fun to have one of these individuals start to pressure you to attend one of these weekends.
The Mankind Project has made many contributions in the personal growth arena, especially making psychodrama, a sophisticated therapy model, available to many thousands of men (and some women) around the globe. I think this one of its significant accomplishments.
While they can be criticized for other aspects of their program, they have developed a way of training and facilitating psychodrama that is quite excellent. They have specific types of psychodrama that are offered for specific types of presenting issues during their weekends.
The men facilitating these exercises have experienced psychodrama themselves, received training, and are being supervised or teaming with more experienced leaders during the program.
Over the years, the Mankind Project has been forced to confront some problems in their programming and have made progress in creating more transparency (men know what they are getting into), attempts to evaluate the mental health of potential participants, and other ways of bringing their program into the 21st century.
The Mankind Project has also influenced many other personal growth programs. While these programs would publicly deny any influence, the similarities are unmistakable to a well-trained eye. While these other programs may deny this, imitation is a form of flattery. In some cases, I would suggest an unhealthy type of envy. It’s called Warrior envy.
These other, smaller programs have faltered as the “identity quest” of the 1980’s and 1990’s has faded, especially when such programs were organized around charismatic leaders who financially profited from their programs. Many participants and volunteers in such programs could see through the veneer of greed and eventually dropped out.
Some filed complaints and lawsuits. For example, James Arthur Ray, (Times, 2015) was so negligent, he was convicted of negligent homicide in the deaths of several of his followers. Each participant paid $15,000 for a personal growth experience in which 3 died and several injured in a failed sweat lodge experience. (Stroud, 2015)
When these programs are built around charismatic personalities, internal conflicts are often suppressed. Anyone who dares to challenge the “leader” is likely met with some type of threat, expulsion, etc. It’s usually not pretty. This inability to address and resolve differences and conflict can damage organizational ability to grow and expand.
So, although I was in and out of involvement myself for many years, I tread cautiously. It seems impossible to create any quality control, although I think Victories and Mankind Project do a pretty good job with this.
Individuals have been hurt and killed in the past, but hopefully, this will not happen in the future. There are too many good men trying to do good things.
Do I recommend these local and national programs anymore? I mention them as possibilities, but nothing else. I wouldn’t encourage anyone to join a church, synagogue, mosque or other religious institution.
I know providing good psychotherapy based on research will be more helpful to individuals in developing better lives. Let people choose their own organizations. That’s called self-determination and it’s a good thing.
Like in everything we do, look before you leap. It can be a long way down.
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